North Vancouver, B.C.: Pedaling the Leadership Talk

In the series of Bike Talk podcast conversations I had with present and former city leaders truly making transportation infrastructure and complete streets change, Bowinn Ma, Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, also stood out. Her perspective and bold leadership approach are notable, and I bet is fueled by the fact that she, herself, rides an eCargoBike to get around North Vancouver. She pedals her talk. Ma is also actively engaged on Twitter (which made it easier for me to learn about her).

The truth is that I struggle to find U.S. mayors and other political leaders who are as brave and bold as those I’ve come across in Canada (and I am looking!), and specifically in British Columbia. Why would that be?

To be sure, they may exist, but my point is I can’t easily find them.

On that note, a friend in U.S. business media recently told me about how she gets to know her future sources: she sees them being accessible on Twitter and “wearing their expertise on their sleeves.” She takes note and follows them to build more insight on that person for future reference.

The thing to note here is that it is *not* press releases from cities about the wonders of what mayors or leaders are doing, it is personal reflection and engagement with these folks on a continual basis.

I could go on. Needless to say, I’d love to find more U.S. city leaders who are both pedaling their talk  AND authentically engaged on Twitter.  In order to be able to find those folks, I – like my reporter friend – need to *see* them regularly, suss out if they are truly leading change over time, build trust and, if so, start to help amplify them via my own platforms to give other’s leadership examples to follow. I shouldn’t have to ask friends where the U.S. biking mayors/city leaders are, for example. It should be really obvious for anyone who is looking.

All of this is to say, you *must* listen to the wisdom of Bowinn Ma (or read the full transcript at the end of this post). What she shares exemplifies what should be modern day legislating, or how to build resilient connections with a range of stakeholders (constituents to media, and beyond) and how to act on climate as a policy maker.

From our Bike Talk podcast conversation , on her decision to buy/use an eCargoBike:

“But I have to say, I mean, when I decided that I wanted to go the e-cargo bike route, it took me many months to plan out whether or not I thought I could actually do it because I still need to show up to constituent meetings not looking like a mess. I still need to get off of my bike and walk into press conferences camera ready. And so, it did take a little bit of planning. But once I figured that what I needed to get done, it’s actually been the best change, really. I wouldn’t go back to depending on my car if I had the choice.”

And, on being so accessible to her constituents:

“But I do believe that walking the talk is a big part of gaining trust or at least not burning… not losing people’s trust, however level of trust that they start out worth believing in when it comes to politicians. I also do believe that having fewer barriers between an elected official and members of the public help with, as I said earlier, accessibility and approachability. I remember myself walking into my office one day, and I was pushing my bike. And at the time, it was actually a non-e-bike, but it was just a regular bike. And there was a security guard who came up to me and said hi. And we started talking, and the security guard was an immigrant. And he said… I remember him telling me how shocked he was that I was an elected representative for the provincial government, there walking through the building with just my helmet and my bike.”

The full, unedited, transcript is below.

***

Andrea Learned:
Today Bike Talk welcomes Bowinn Ma, a political leader in British Columbia, Canada, who represents the electoral district of North Vancouver-Lonsdale. And she serves the province as the Minister of State for Infrastructure. Bike Talk audiences may be familiar with her via her wonderful Twitter presence, where she shares photos of herself on, I believe, a tern GSD e-bike.

Bowinn Ma:
Yes [crosstalk 00:00:23]-

Andrea Learned:
… some details on that paddling around town and talking with constituents. Great to have you, and thank you for taking this time to talk with Bike Talk, Bowinn.

Bowinn Ma:
Aw, thanks so much for having me, Andrea.

Andrea Learned:
I mean, I really appreciate you taking the time. I know that this is moment in your day that you got to squeeze in. So one of the things I wanted to start with is just that the role we were talking about a little bit before we started. What is the role entail, specifically, the infrastructure role that you have?

Bowinn Ma:
Yeah, for sure. So an MLA is a member of the legislative assembly. So we’re representatives of our constituency at the provincial level of politics here in B.C. And I serve the community known as North Vancouver-Lonsdale, which is a constituency of about 60,000 people. But my role as Minister of State for Infrastructure falls under the ministry of transportation and infrastructure. So I serve on Premier John Horgan’s executive council as a member of the governing body. But I also work with the Minister of Transportation. That’s Rob Fleming. And the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure is the minister that I work with. And the kinds of work that I do to support him in his work is the delivery of transportation infrastructure. So we’re talking… we’ve got quite a few major projects on the go here in British Columbia. We’re extending our SkyTrain line, the [inaudible 00:01:54] into a subway underneath Broadway in Vancouver.

Bowinn Ma:
We are building out another SkyTrain line out through the suburbs of Surrey into the City of Langley. That’s known as the Surrey Langley SkyTrain Station. We’ve also got replacement projects for major vehicle infrastructure as well. So, for instance, the George Massey crossing that connects Delta and Ladner with Richmond. And then we’ve also got Highway one, which is the Trans-Canada Highway upon which about $65 billion worth of goods travels every single year. That’s a major, major highway corridor for us. And right now, outside of the Metro Vancouver area, it’s going through what we call the Fraser Valley. It’s two lanes in each direction, which I know from the perspective of your American listeners will sound like a very small highway indeed, but it’s very important highway for us. So we’re doing some improvements there as well.

Andrea Learned:
Yeah. That sounds like a very small highway, but it’s nice to… I mean, your improvements won’t be that you’re adding lanes, will it?

Bowinn Ma:
So we are actually currently increasing capacity, but we’re doing it in [inaudible 00:03:16]. And so far, the capacity that we’re increasing along that line is for HOV bus transit and transit priority. And on top of that, we’re leveraging that project because that’s a major, major investment and there’s a lot of time and money being spent on it. We are also taking the opportunity to expand cycling infrastructure as well because a lot of these highways they bisect communities.

Bowinn Ma:
And so, even though it’s a relatively small highway from the perspective of your American listeners, it’s still a very dangerous crossing for people who are trying to get from one side of the community to the other, especially if they’re not in the vehicle. And so we’re taking the opportunity to upgrade interchanges, provide separated bike lanes and multi-use pathways. And generally, enable these projects to support communities in all of the ways that people travel and people don’t just travel by car.

Andrea Learned:
Wonderful. As somebody who lives in Seattle and can actually come visit your city fairly often, I already love riding my bike around the city. But also just, it’s wonderful to hear that you’re really tending to that in how you’re improving. Was it route one, you said? Route one.

Bowinn Ma:
Yeah. So it’s known as Highway one.

Andrea Learned:
Okay. Great.

Bowinn Ma:
And I have to say, I mean, we didn’t always do this. My government, my political party, it has been in government since 2017. But in general, the province of B.C’s so-called ministry of highways didn’t always consider public transit and cycling as part of the work that they were meant to support. That is a relatively new forward-thinking approach that we’re taking that also takes into perspective land-use planning as well.

Andrea Learned:
Wonderful. Well, hopefully, we might get into a little bit more of that, or please share whenever that’s kind of inserted into any of the questions I’m asking you, but that’s fantastic. And it is always surprising that it’s been so recent that the country or [inaudible 00:05:18] the government started to think in that way. I mean, it’s just amazing that we’re so late in the game, and I feel like you’re ahead of a lot of US cities, so that’s wonderful to hear.

Andrea Learned:
So one of the reasons I really wanted to interview you is I have been following you on Twitter for a long time, and I’m in my Bikes4Climate work, always looking for political leaders who peddle their talk. And so I wanted to ask you just sort of that foundations. How did you come to start using a bike or e-bike for transportation in your own adult life? And when did that begin to be maybe, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, part of the political brand you present in your work?

Bowinn Ma:
Well, I would say that I used to commute by bike a lot before I became an MLA. I used to cycle from my home to my work. I used to work out as an engineer out at the airport, and I would bike out there quite frequently. And I used an old Peugeot road bike that I had purchased for $125 back when I was in university, very, very aggressive stance on the road bike. I’m totally prone, can hardly shoulder check and so forth. But when I became an MLA, the demands of the job really changed the way that I needed, or I thought that I needed to travel. Especially as a younger woman, I get judged by my appearance a lot. And so it meant that I needed to wear heels, wear way more makeup than I ever wore before.

Bowinn Ma:
Dress in ways that my previous job managing construction projects didn’t require me to address. And all of that made cycling as a way to move around much more difficult, but at the same time, because of the work that I was doing around transportation and my approach to transportation is very much that we need to look at this holistically. That it has to be multimodal. That land-use planning, where you’re building childcare close to schools and schools close to homes and putting homes close to jobs that pay enough for people to actually live close to where they work. That’s the real solution around resolving congestion and our transportation challenges. It’s not these 50-kilometer commute and building 30 lane highways in order to get people along their 50-kilometer commutes because they can’t afford to live close to where they work.

Bowinn Ma:
That’s not the solution. The solution is compact, complete communities. And on top of that, the reason why that needs to be the solution moving forward is not just about livability and not only about affordability because people spend so much money getting to and from work when they live far from where they work. But it’s also about climate change because the emissions that we generate from transportation here in British Columbia account for well over a third of all the GHG emissions that our province is responsible for. And we are a province that is blessed with tons of hydroelectricity, tons of renewable energy. So it’s a ton of GHG emissions that come from transportation.

Bowinn Ma:
And so, I realized at some point that I was no longer comfortable driving around in my gas vehicle all of the time. And me and my partner live in a community that isn’t really known for its… Well, actually, let me step back. The North Shore of Vancouver is generally seen as this very sprawled, much more affluent place. But the city where I serve has generally a lower income. It’s also a much more dense municipality. But people don’t think of the north shore as that. So I think I’m losing track of my own phrase here, but [crosstalk 00:09:04]-

Andrea Learned:
That’s…

Bowinn Ma:
Sorry about that.

Andrea Learned:
… all very interesting, but I was just sort of saying, how did the bike sort of become your brand? And then maybe you were going to talk about how you got back into biking. But an e-bike, I don’t know.

Bowinn Ma:
Yeah, well, so that’s basically where I headed to. What I realized was that with all the talk that I was talking about, active transportation and using public transit, I was no longer comfortable depending on my gas vehicle all of the time. And I felt like if I wanted to be able to advocate for all this, I would also need to demonstrate that this could be done. And so my partner and I traded our two gas vehicles or one electric vehicle, which he’s the primary driver of, and I purchased a cargo e-bike, and that’s a very long way to explain how I ended up there.

Bowinn Ma:
But I have to say, I mean, when I decided that I wanted to go the e-cargo bike route, it took me many months to plan out whether or not I thought I could actually do it because I still need to show up to constituent meetings not looking like a mess. I still need to get off of my bike and walk into press conferences camera ready. And so, it did take a little bit of planning. But once I figured that what I needed to get done, it’s actually been the best change, really. I wouldn’t go back to depending on my car if I had the choice.

Andrea Learned:
I love what you’re saying for a couple reasons. One, because I’ve been riding an e-bike for a couple years now, and I didn’t realize that riding my, I call it acoustic bike. I wasn’t even going as… using a bike as much as I could. So then I got the e-bike, and I was like, “Okay, I can use it for much more.” But then I just recently also had to get rid of my 24-year-old gas car. And I was just kind of forced in a way to think about the EVie.

Andrea Learned:
And now that I have an EVie and an e-bike, I swear, I’m not as hesitant to even go visit friends across town. I just didn’t know that that was sort of weighing on me. It’s really interesting, and that’s something that’s so wonderful about you and your reflection on Twitter, et cetera, is once you know your values and you really delve into them, you just live them.

Andrea Learned:
And to your point, once you make a decision to move to an e-cargo bike or an e-bike, you just start, and you run into the things that are going to be problems, and you figure it out. And then you just get better and better with how you’re doing all the things you need to do by e-bike. So I love that. That’s a wonderful story, and it just [inaudible 00:11:31] a wonderful example. And also to your point, which I really want to emphasize is that you are demonstrating, right, what is possible for your constituents.

Andrea Learned:
And I think that’s huge. You’re peddling your talk in a way, right. So thank you for that. So I love the image I saw of you on Twitter, moving your campaign signs around North Vancouver via your e-cargo bike. Do you remember those? So what are some of your more memorable interactions with constituents who may have been surprised or interested in your mode of transportation? Do you have any stories like that?

Bowinn Ma:
Yeah. I mean, so for those listeners who don’t know, on my e-cargo bike, a volunteer made me a wooden crate, which I attached to the back of my bike, and it’s there as a fixture. And I put signs on it saying, “Bowinn Ma, MLA North Vancouver-Lonsdale,” so that people can see that I am going around in the constituency. And there were a few things that surprised me about doing this. One was how much more visible it made me rather in comparison to traveling around in my own steel cage on four wheels.

Bowinn Ma:
And the other thing was how willing people were to wave and say hi to me as I passed by. And that was really quite lovely because I think that… I mean, I remember the time before I became an MLA, and it can be very easy… It’s very easy for members of the public to feel very disconnected from their elected officials. And being able to see me pass them by on the street with nothing but air between my face and theirs actually made a huge difference to how approachable I appeared to a lot of people, which I really valued.

Bowinn Ma:
And I remember once I was riding down in the bike lane along quite a busy road. It was a painted bike lane. And somebody in a vehicle rolled down the window, we were stopped at a light, and he shouted out through his passenger window. And he said, “Hey, are you Bowinn Ma?” I said, “Yes, yes I am.” And he says, “Do you have a moment? I’ve been trying to reach you.” And so we headed down the block and turned into the first driveway into kind of a strip mall area.

Bowinn Ma:
We pulled aside, and we had a great conversation, and we wouldn’t have had that conversation if I wasn’t on my bike. I mean, he could have emailed me. He could have called me. Certainly, those are ways to reach me for sure. But sometimes, being right there with somebody gives them a level of access and accessibility that might not otherwise be obvious to people. So that was really quite wonderful.

Andrea Learned:
That’s an amazing story actually. I mean, that’s just the visibility, and to your point, no box between you and them. And also just, I think there are a lot of people. I know with my political leaders taking the effort to email or get in touch in some way like that is an extra effort that I think a lot of people wouldn’t do. Whereas seeing you pass by and just sort of taking that risk, that’s a incredibly lovely story. That’s wonderful to hear, Bowinn. I’m going to talk about that a lot. I think that’s so great. So given your deep kind of constituent engagement and understanding, have you gathered any insight on how potentially to move constituents, more everyday citizens towards e-bikes as transportation?

Bowinn Ma:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, first off, let me say that e-bikes are a real game-changer for active transportation. Area that I serve, the North Shore of Vancouver, is known not only for being a very rainy place but also for its mountainous terrain. And I am not confident that I would be biking around every day if I could not have support of an electric assist. And I’ll also say that while the pandemic is certainly something that I would never want to experience again, and I hope we never have another pandemic. There were some positives that came out of the last year and a half that I hope our communities hold on to. And one of those positives is the incredible embrace of active transportation over the last year and a half. Now our government spent literally hundreds of millions of dollars to keep public transit service operating at normal service levels throughout the entire pandemic.

Bowinn Ma:
Because we recognize that when you have the frequency of buses drop below little a certain point, they’re no longer viable as a way to travel. And it would be much more difficult for us to recover ridership afterwards if people have given up on public transit altogether. We also recognize public transit as a service that is important from a social-economic equity perspective as well. Some of our most dependent upon workers our most essential workers during the pandemic also happened… Also, I don’t want to say also happened as though it was an accident because I think that there are a lot of systemic issues that lead to low pay. But they were some of the lowest-paid workers in our communities, which also meant that they were more likely to be truly dependent on services like public transit. But for those who had other options, aside from public transit, they went back in their cars or they worked from home.

Bowinn Ma:
But a lot of them also went to biking as an alternative, as a safe alternative during the pandemic. In addition, we have an incredible public health officer who led our COVID-19 response. And I remember that early on in the pandemic, she said to people, she said to British Colombians, “It’s okay to go outside. It’s okay to exercise. Just keep your distance. You know what, take this opportunity to pick up an outdoor activity that is safe to do with your families. Go for bike ride.” She had encouraged everyone to go for a bike ride as a safe outdoor activity that their families could engage with. And I have to say in the weeks following her saying that the streets were just littered with cyclists and all of our multi-use pathways and our separated bike lanes here on the North Shore filled, filled with cyclists, families cycling. And I think that really broke through to a lot of families and a lot of people who might not have always been comfortable using cycling as transportation.

Bowinn Ma:
When you start by doing this casual cycling, you can absolutely start to see how you can transition it into your daily commute. And so we really want to encourage that. We’ve done it a few ways, and we do have e-bike incentives. So there’s a SCRAP-IT program that we have where you can get… I checked a few months ago. It was $1,150 towards your e-bike purchase. We also recently removed provincial sales tax on e-bikes. So that saves buyers 7% on every sale in comparison to last year. But there’s also, of course, infrastructure needs too. So our ministry, we’ve got grants open right now for municipalities to apply to in order to help upgrade their own active transportation networks.

Bowinn Ma:
But like I said earlier in the podcast, our ministry is also taking a much more deliberate approach to building in active transportation infrastructure into our major projects. So instead of just widening a highway or adding capacity, how do we do this in a way that encourages the kind of growth in communities that we want and the kinds of transportation choices that we want to see? So that may mean HOVs and transit priority lanes, but it also means walking, cycling, and rolling infrastructure as well.

Andrea Learned:
Well, I think it’s interesting. Two things, the public health officer, as you said, deliberately stated, “It’s okay.” Right. She had to give permission. She actually had to state it that way, which I think is a point that didn’t happen in a lot of other cases. And then to your point, yes, to even say, “Consider taking up a new activity.” I mean, that’s super powerful. And then also to your point, being so deliberate in making sure that active transportation is in every decision moving forward. That’s incredible.

Andrea Learned:
It’s very exciting for me to hear what you’re up to. And one of the reasons I was excited to talk with you in general. It’s just I believe that even US cities and leaders need more examples of places where they’ve been doing these little changes and seeing success, which it sounds like you’re really seeing. So that’s really, really exciting. Thank you for sharing that.

Bowinn Ma:
No problem. I do want to acknowledge, though, we’ve got a lot of work to do here in British Columbia on that.

Andrea Learned:
Okay.

Bowinn Ma:
Even though we have seen some successes, we’re not sitting back on our laurels. We know that there is immense work ahead of us in order to decarbonize our transportation system. But also to promote the kind of community building compact communities and encourage the environmentally and socially responsible modes of travel that we want all British Columbiast to see as viable choices. We’ve got a lot of work ahead of us.

Andrea Learned:
Yeah. Good job getting started, I guess. And getting started in a way that just sounds really smart. Fantastic. So one of the things I work on a lot is Women4Climate and looking at leadership and sort of visible leadership. And I’m wondering if, as a visible leader, and you’re visible in a lot of ways, but also through the biking around town. Have you found power in being that open about pedaling your transportation talk? And if that isn’t enough of a question, does that impact the level of trust constituents have for you as you work on infrastructure policies and such? What are you getting as a leader by being visible and in terms of trust-building?

Bowinn Ma:
Yeah, I mean, that’s a really fantastic question. I think that whether fairly or unfairly, politicians are seen as people who say, “Do as I say, and not as I do.” Right. And I don’t believe that that is true of all politicians, because I have tons of colleagues who are incredibly principled and do everything that they can possibly do in order to make sure that they are giving their communities the best possible example that they can be, right. But I mean, we can’t deny that politicians are generally not very trusted by members of the public. Anything [crosstalk 00:22:05]-

Andrea Learned:
… to say the least. Yeah.

Bowinn Ma:
Yeah, that’s right. I mean, I used to say that… so I’m currently still a registered professional engineer, and that’s the work that I did before I became an MLA. And I used to joke that I have the honor of occupying simultaneously one of the most and least trusted professions in the world.

Bowinn Ma:
But I do believe that walking the talk is a big part of gaining trust or at least not burning… not losing people’s trust, however level of trust that they start out worth believing in when it comes to politicians. I also do believe that having fewer barriers between an elected official and members of the public help with, as I said earlier, accessibility and approachability. I remember myself walking into my office one day, and I was pushing my bike. And at the time, it was actually a non-e-bike, but it was just a regular bike. And there was a security guard who came up to me and said hi. And we started talking, and the security guard was an immigrant. And he said… I remember him telling me how shocked he was that I was an elected representative for the provincial government, there walking through the building with just my helmet and my bike.

Bowinn Ma:
And he said, if you were an elected official in my country, you would be in a bulletproof car surrounded by security guards, and you would never be just walking around in public. And so, I really appreciated that I had the opportunity to break through some of the perspectives or stereotypes that this person had of what elected officials were supposed to be like. I remember having people saying like, “Wow, you’re really nice for a politician.” And-

Andrea Learned:
Wow.

Bowinn Ma:
And that wasn’t something that they expected or that, “Wow, I’ve never been able to just talk to a politician on the street before.” So, I mean, I will acknowledge that being inaccessible probably gives some other politicians different kinds of power, but it’s maybe the type of power that I’m not really interested in at all. It’s not the kind of thing that I came into this line of work to have.

Andrea Learned:
I mean, that’s very interesting. Isn’t it? It’s sort of old-fashioned versus kind of the way you as a kind of a younger leader potentially. And then also, because I’ve looked at gender differences. Sometimes I would throw it there, but we [inaudible 00:24:46] the differences of kind of older white men versus… but we don’t have to go into that.

Bowinn Ma:
For a whole other podcast.

Andrea Learned:
That’s a whole other podcast. And that’s one of the reasons I focus on Women4Climate so much is because I think women are leading the way they’re leading in empathy. They’re leading in building trust. They’re leading and building social engagement. This is why we’re having this conversation. So related to that, how do other leaders, your peers, or colleagues respond to your representation as a active transportation voice? And are you maybe influencing anybody there? Or are you getting some negative, or are fears or people kind of raising up hackles because of that? What is it like with your peers and colleagues?

Bowinn Ma:
Well, I guess they would want to note that I actually drew inspiration from a lot of my peers. So Spencer Chandra Herbert is an MLA who represents the Vancouver West End in downtown. And he has, I believe, the physically smallest constituency in all of B.C. because of how dense it is. And he’s able to walk the perimeter at 30 minutes or something. Whereas, in some of our ridings, some of our constituents, for instance, my colleague, Jen rice, who lives up in North Coast, her constituency is almost literally the size of about a quarter of B.C’s landmass because of how not densely populated that is.

Andrea Learned:
Wow.

Bowinn Ma:
So her ability to serve her constituency entirely by bike is very, very different from my ability or Spencer’s ability. I’ll also acknowledge another cyclist, David Eby. He’s the attorney general now and the Minister of Housing. And he has what he calls the mobile office.

Bowinn Ma:
And it is actually like a big cargo bike that he bikes uphill to the university and sets up on the side of the street in order to interact with community members. And what’s notable in particular about his mobile office bike setup is it is not electrically assisted.

Andrea Learned:
Oh my goodness.

Bowinn Ma:
And it’s like made of wood. I don’t know how heavy it is. I think it must be well over 150 lightweight. It’s very heavy. So he bikes that all the way up to the university and to other places in order to interact with community members. So I’m not the only one.

Andrea Learned:
You sure [inaudible 00:27:31].

Bowinn Ma:
I had to use an electric assist because I’m just not that strong of a cyclist in comparison to Eby. So I’ve got some great inspiring examples to learn from and build up on and we’re all just learning from each other and continuing to improve. And in fact, just today, another MLA, her name is Grace Lore, she serves a community in Victoria. She just also tweeted out that she is traveling by bike there as well. So I think it’s growing.

Andrea Learned:
I feel like maybe you guys should form a little club or a Twitter list or something because it’s to my point of trying to influence, to see more leaders doing this. And then it’s like, “This is the Vancouver, or this is the British Columbia group of political leaders who ride their bike or focus on…” I think that’s wonderful. Really exciting. And I’m going to look all those people up. So thank you for that. That’s great. One thing I’m wondering, is there anything that you’d say to other women political leaders about stepping out with your values and how to find or hold onto the political will to make change?

Bowinn Ma:
Oh, wow. Yes. Know why you’re doing the work that you’re doing. That’s one of the pieces of advice I always give to young people who are thinking of getting into electoral politics because it is, I was going to say, shit show, but you might have to bleep that out. I’m not sure. But it’s not a straightforward line of work to get into electoral politics. There will be lots of ups, and there will be a lot of downs. There will be moments of just brutal, annoying politics and BS to deal with. There will be disappointments. And a lot of the workaround just running a campaign can be physically and emotionally exhausting. And when you get elected, you’re often faced with decisions and choices where no way forward seems to be the actual right way forward, but you got to choose one. So these are very challenging situations to be in.

Bowinn Ma:
And I would be lying if I would say that I didn’t occasionally find myself wondering, “Why? What am I doing here? How do I go on with everything that is happening with all the challenges there are to addressing the major issues of our society like poverty and homelessness and climate change.” The grand challenge of our generation is climate change. I would be lying if I didn’t sometimes feel as though I couldn’t go on. But what really helps me continue is going back to and remembering why I started this work in the first place. Who I’m doing this work for. And if you come from a place that prioritizes your community and the people around you. That prioritizes social justice and climate action. That prioritizes outcomes that are about other people and not yourself, then you can really find the path forward.

Andrea Learned:
That’s fantastic advice. Thank you for sharing that. I will spread that widely too. There’s kind of a handful of political leaders, female political leaders, that I’m able to point to. And I’m constantly pointing to Anne Hidalgo in Paris with her amazing political run making this stuff happen. So it’s great to hear and learn and maybe share your wisdom on that. So thank you. With regard to climate, how are you feeling in terms of getting that message? Are your constituents getting the message broadly? Not having to do with active transportation, but just in general, are you feeling that you’re reaching some harder-to-reach-constituents now, given the… especially the horrible situation we’re in this summer? And do you have any insights on things that you’ve found that might convert or might connect with the harder to… the people that are kind of tending to climate denial? Have you learned anything about that in your engagement with consultants?

Bowinn Ma:
Yeah, I would say that I’m very fortunate to be serving a community that by and large does accept that climate change is real and largely believes that it is an emergency. And I would say that when it comes to our government, so for context, British Columbia currently has one of the most aggressive legislated emissions reduction targets in North America. Now meeting those targets, of course, is easier said than done. But we do have a lot of will to actually address climate change. And I would say there is a ton of political will in our communities and in the public as well to address that change. Now, the challenge that we have before us is how we transition our economy in a way that actually enables those GHG reductions. Because I do think that some of our biggest challenges when it comes to addressing climate change, they’re not technical.

Bowinn Ma:
They’re not a lack of technology. It’s not that we don’t know the kinds of things that we have to do in order to drive down emissions. It’s much more political than that. And when I say political, I’m not talking strictly about political parties and elections and governments, although that’s certainly a very big part of it. But I also mean politics from the perspective of how this impacts people on a day-to-day basis and how people interact with each other and their environment of what they believe is right or wrong. There are no universal as in terms of right and wrong. You talk to… you’re not going to have 100% agreement from your entire country about what falls into the right versus wrong category. So there are different perspectives out there, certainly. But I think, generally British Colombians, absolutely believe in climate change and want action to happen.

Bowinn Ma:
One of our more… digging down to kind of a more specific challenge that we have is that I believe even in British Columbia, we have a lot of social-economic inequality, right. And if you are a person or a family with less financial means. If you’re living day by day. If you’re worried about putting food on the table. If you’re worried about keeping a roof over your kids’ heads. It is very difficult to set those concerns aside, to think about the future. And so that’s really, I think, more the barrier that we are facing as a province. Because in the urban areas, we have a very diversified economy, and we can change things up. And there’s a lot of political will there for the kinds of change that we need. But in our rural areas, we have a lot of towns that are still dependent on that one mind, on that one fossil fuel project.

Andrea Learned:
Right.

Bowinn Ma:
On that one mill.

Andrea Learned:
Yeah.

Bowinn Ma:
Right. And that mill shuts down, and the 50 jobs go away. That’s like 50 families. And those 50 families were powering the entire local community-

Andrea Learned:[inaudible 00:34:33].

Bowinn Ma:
… economy. Those are really difficult transitions to navigate. And so we’re doing this work trying to find ways to diversify economies in more rural areas in order to provide choices for people that don’t involve the kinds of activities we know we need to phase out, but it is challenging. Absolutely. It’s very difficult.

Andrea Learned:
Well, it’s interesting. Some of the work that I do involves food systems transition, and we talk about a just transition in food systems, right, global food systems. And one of the things that we found in that space is to really emphasize social justice, jobs, jobs, jobs, and how it isn’t going to be overnight you make this change in it. But how do you get people interested in kind of coming in and sort of maybe, for example, food systems, it would be learning to farm differently and that sort of thing. So I hear you. And I think that’s a huge issue. And I think that just transition is being applied to everything. Now it’s like, “How are we going to do this in socially just equitable way?” And so do you find that your community, that you’re able to be engaging with a lot of members from that community in order to get their input? Is that happening pretty nicely?

Bowinn Ma:
Oh, I would say that our community is way ahead of our government on this. I mean, that’s not to say that our government isn’t moving ahead on addressing climate change. But I mean that my community members are demanding more and faster, bolder, and this is great. It’s fantastic because that kind of grassroots level advocacy is just so important. I strongly believe that in order for us to move forward as a province or as a country, we need both political leadership and also advocacy at the grassroots-level as well. They’ve got to be pushing one another. And I believe that I’m extremely fortunate to have that here in North Vancouver-Lonsdale.

Andrea Learned:
Wow. Really exciting. So as we close, I just wanted to ask, are there any upcoming events or milestones or anything that’s happening that you want to plug here related to transportation and infrastructure just so we can keep our eyes on it and, or letting us know how to follow you on Twitter and things like that?

Bowinn Ma:
Oh, yeah. So you can all follow me on, let’s see Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and TikTok.

Andrea Learned:
My goodness.

Bowinn Ma:
And my name is spelled B-O-W-I-N-N. And my last name is M-A. It should be pretty easy to find me there. And in terms of what’s coming up. Well, we do have those fantastic, exciting, rapid public transit projects coming up.

Andrea Learned:
Oh, those are very exciting.

Bowinn Ma:
But we are also going to be bringing in free transit for people 12 and under province-wide. And that was shared earlier this year. And we expect that to be coming in place this fall, and we’ll provide details then.

Andrea Learned:
Oh, my goodness. That is so exciting. Wow. Well, Bowinn, thank you. I really appreciate your time today. This was so fun speaking with you, and I’m sure the audience will get a ton of insight and wonderful, good vibes about what’s happening in North Vancouver and B.C. from this conversation. Thank you so much.

Bowinn Ma:
No, thanks so much for having me.

Andrea Learned:
Really appreciate it.